And yes, there are thousands of religions, the majority which believe in some sort of afterlife. I'm going to only address those who also believe in the Bible, and what it says. Sadly, the number of people who believe the Bible is not very dependable is increasing. But that is a subject for another day (or another blog).
Reading the Bible, there are still many different interpretations ...so, how do we reconcile these different beliefs and still not build up walls or get upset?? Well, I believe God's character is such that it would seem wholly ridiculous to think I could enter into a conversation and think I could decide what is reasonable. But, I also believe that is precisely what God wants us to do ...to enter into conversation about Him, to talk about Him, and share. And I believe that God would want for those of us who love Him to be a part of the conversation ...because so many others talk about Him in a not so much loving way, which I feel lacks wisdom.
So, considering an afterlife ...I've talked to those who say they believe that not all, but only some get to experience an afterlife. And they feel the number of those who experience an afterlife is much more limited than that which I would imagine. And there are those who believe everyone gets to experience an afterlife ---that group inclusive of those who believe everyone goes to heaven, and those who believe some do not.
Recently, I attended a Bible study about the subject, with video clips by Lee Strobel and Randy Alcorn ...and also comments about Mitch Albom and William Paul Young.
Now, I am going to leave Mitch Albom out of this conversation, as I believe his story, 'The Five People You Meet in Heaven', is a story about understanding perspectives in life and about forgiveness. I read the book and watched the movie, and I was the one who brought up the subject of Mitch's book ---but, I began by stating that I thought the story by Mitch was an excellent story, yet I did not feel he was claiming any accuracy about how the afterlife would be. It was very well done in showing how life here on earth is, and how we get things wrong.
That could also be said of William Paul Young's story, 'The Shack'. Yet, I felt he went a bit further ...and he did so with much more success. But, he also gave me much more to talk about.
Yes, I am guilty once again about talking about a subject when I did not read the book or watch the movie. But, I have read the Bible, and since this book is also about healing and forgiveness, I will ask you to forgive me for only referring to the 'CliffsNotes' at this time. And following below are some quotes I found on those notes:
The Trinity is described as Papa, Jesus, and Sarayu (the Holy Spirit). Mack's 6-year-old daughter had died, and as everyone would expect ...he is having a difficult time coping with the fact that Missy was murdered.
And in Chapter 9, the 'CliffsNotes' say: Sarayu and Mack discuss good and evil. Sarayu says that good and evil do not exist. What exists is only "Light and Good and its absence." What matters most among people are not concepts of good and evil that they themselves construct, but rather relationships based on "trust and love."
Chapter 11 (CliffNotes): Mack encounters a beautiful, olive-skinned woman. Mack tells her that he does not trust God because God allowed his daughter Missy to die. If he wants to get rid of his pain, the woman tells Mack he has to trust Papa. Mack then glimpses Missy outside the cave. She appears to be in a happy, beautiful afterlife.
Chapter 13 (CliffNotes): Mack asks Papa if Missy had to die so that Mack could change. Papa tells him she does not plan tragedies, but if tragedies occur she can use them to bring about good. She says that it is humans who choose to perform evil or not. When Mack asks her the reason for Jesus' death and resurrection, Papa says it helped her reconcile herself to a changing world. (No, this is not a typo ...nor am I having gender confusion. Papa in the story is depicted as a woman, as is also the Holy Spirit. Yet, Jesus is shown as a Middle Eastern man.)
Chapter 14 (CliffNotes): Mack tells Sarayu, who represents the Holy Spirit, that he is afraid of negative emotions. She says his Great Sadness is not a bad emotion; it is the lack of emotion. She tells him to focus on his relationships, not on pre-established rules.
Chapter 16 (CliffNotes): When Mack wakes, Papa appears to him as a man with a ponytail. He says that he has made this change because Mack needs a father figure. Papa tells Mack that if he can forgive his daughter Missy's killer, he can get rid of his pain. Papa then takes Mack along a path marked by red arcs to the cave where Missy's body lies. They wrap it in a fragrant mat and carry it back to the cabin. Mack mutters "I forgive you" as he leaves the cave.
Now, on to my notes. I don't know if it's due to lack of satisfactory representation in the CliffNotes, or an actual inconsistency that I see ...but let me just comment of some concerning things that at least I see with other people's perceptions of this subject. In Chapter 9, the CliffNotes list Sarayu as saying that good and evil do not exist. Yet, in Chapter 13 the CliffNotes say, "Papa tells him she does not plan tragedies, but if tragedies occur she can use them to bring about good. She says that it is humans who choose to perform evil or not." Perhaps those notes aren't very representative, but Chapter 9 saying there is no evil, then Chapter 13 admitting the existence of it??
Three things are not denied: Healing is very important, God exists, and salvation exists. Yet, though we agree on those things, I feel the conversation falls short by leaving it there. I know in 'The Shack' that Mack had a very abusive dad, and I know that we are all sinners ---so perhaps it is easier to understand how the man who murdered his daughter had possibly become that way if we feel he also had an abusive dad, and forgiveness towards him may be more clearly understood considering Mack had killed his own abusive dad by poisoning him ---and perhaps Mack not only felt he should forgive his daughter's murderer, but he also had to forgive his dad and forgive himself for what he did to his dad. Yes, I get that ...but I don't think it is through lack of insight that I don't get many of the other things people often add to this. I admit it is a very difficult subject, but I am typing the best I can my thoughts, though I know many thoughts are difficult to express ...whether verbally, or through writing.
To say that God was with Missy the entire time is a very comforting thought ...or to think that she perhaps passed out, and was not aware of any of the horror nor felt any of the pain that we'd imagine would be near impossible to endure. So, no, I don't know of the furthering details of Missy's plight. Yet, I know that there are young children who are conscious and suffer tremendous pain for years. I've also heard unbelievers question how a loving omnipresent, omniscient, all-powerful God would allow that ...and I feel it is not my response to say it was all for understanding our relationship with God, and through that, traveling down the path of healing.
I imagine what it would be like if every occasion of someone going to do something really bad ...if God would intervene and prevent it. And if God was going to prevent all the bad things from happening, then why not just take that person out of the bad situation and take the person to a place where bad things don't happen ...let's say, to Heaven?
By the way, I do believe both good and evil exist ...
Or we could look at the way 'Star Wars' depicts it. And thanks to the 'prequels', we understand how Anakin became Darth Vader ...and also how we can forgive him when he finally came to the rescue of Luke (and his Force Ghost clearly shows that version of salvation for him). Yet, if we were merely to focus on the concept that all the bad is directed toward understanding and healing, I do not see that for the 6-year-old Missy, or perhaps other 6-year-olds who are tormented for years ...and even when their tormentors sleep, they cannot sleep as they continue to be tormented by their cries, and the constant "Why...Why ...Why!!!" of it all (the wickedness perpetrated against them). It would seem more effective to allow someone to vent their anger in the way that Luke did with providing a 'force projection' of himself for Kylo Ren to battle ...so no one would physically get hurt. That could be perceived as a better solution.
But, what if each time the 6-year-old, who would have to endure years of horrible unimaginable suffering, would not have to endure unimaginable, but would instead just be taken to a safe place ...safe from any harm?? If the child dies right away, you could say that safe place is rather immediate ---that place being Heaven. But, what of the child who lives ...and lives for years being tormented. And some of them may grow-up and torture others, perhaps even worse. One could say that if the young child was removed from that terrible torment ...then perhaps that child would not grow-up to abuse others, so why not just take that child to Heaven before the child is tortured so badly that they learn also to be a tormentor??
My question is ...if it happened that way, then who would be left?? I don't believe anyone is born 'bad' ...so couldn't that all be redirected?? But what about a good family ...that child would be safe within their own home, so the child wouldn't have to be moved to another safe place.
I'm going to bombard you with "What ifs" here ....also, what if at 14 years old the child did something bad, and the parents were then moved to a safe place?? Who then would parent the child?? And wouldn't the world be only be filled with bad influences if everyone else was taken to a safe place??
You could say, why couldn't God be the parental guide and teacher to these troublesome people ...both adults and children??
Well, we are missing a few things here. It didn't work in the past, and it won't work in the future. And the reason is 'freedom of choice'.
You may ask, when did it happen in the past, and when will it happen in the future?? Well, in the past, God had a wonderful environment for the angels ...and the rebellion happened. And in the future, after Jesus reigns for a thousand years on earth ...the enemy will be allowed to get out of jail per se, and it is surprising how quickly the enemy will be able to recruit those who will go against the thousand year peace.
You may then say, well, why does God allow the enemy to get out of jail, or prison?? Or as one version expresses it, the enemy will then be unchained. And it won't be a soothing feeling ...and 'Unchained Melody' won't likely be playing in the background. Why not leave the troublemaker chained up??
Well, that has to do with righteousness. God gives each of us a chance, and with freedom of choice, we do make some choices. God knows which ones are not our choices, and when things have been chosen for us ...that is all taken into consideration, as God is omnipresent and omniscient.
Another difficult topic is trying to understand all the emotional questions and beliefs revolving around salvation, and whether there will be a future 'safe place'. Certainly heaven won't be like it used to be ...before the angelic rebellion, with potentially another rebellion possibility. And in understanding 'salvation', one must understand what we are being saved from.
or
and
and
yet, again ...
Interesting enough, we have conversations about why God doesn't do more, yet many who read the Bible question why God does what He does, as if they disagree with what God has done.
How do we begin to understand??
Why so much killing?? Perhaps we can look at Abraham's conversation in Chapter 18 of Genesis. In the first part of the Chapter he is told that Sarah is going to give him a child ...but from that good news, it quickly turns to more difficult news, and a very interesting conversation when Abraham asks in verse 23, if the righteous are going to be destroyed with the wicked, and for nearly a dozen verses we see much about what God wants us to see.
In the Book of Judges, do we accept the judgment of God, or do we judge Him, or judge for ourselves. God shows much understanding by letting us deal with our own problems instead of dealing with it for us, then us judging Him for doing so.
(Did we learn from World War II, that to deal with the horrors of such as the Holocaust ...that we couldn't just sit idly by. We needed to go to war. Neville Chamberlain did not see coming what soon came, and he trusted that which could not be trusted ...not blaming him, as we all have our moments. And I also realize that any action previous to realizing the mistrust would likely have been criticized as unwarranted early intervention. And so often we are advised not to intervene. In the last decade, how many times have I heard the cry, "Stand down!" ...leading to inaction and lack of intervention??)
The people wanted Kings ...and God allowed that, though it was not too wise. Though again, they saw more clearly where it led them ...and much more painful also.
Jesus said in Matthew, Chapter 13, says, “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest ..."
